Hello everyone, welcome to another Cloud City FFTCG guide. This time around we will be talking about the discard card mechanic. In FFTCG many cards have the ability to make your opponent select a card(s) from their hand and put it into the break zone. In the case of Zidane 3-056H, he allows you to see your opponent’s hand and pick the card yourself. Discard walks a fine line between being an effective or ineffective use of your resources. This is because forcing your opponent to discard cards doesn’t directly affect the state of the board. You can however cut their resources off, and stop them from being able to answer your board state. To understand why discard can be such a useful ability, we first need to talk about “Card Advantage”. Card Advantage: A Predictor of Who Will Win the Match? Card advantage is a term used in most TCGs. A player with card advantage has more cards in their hand than their opponent, and therefore have more resources and choices of how to interact with the board favourably. Card advantage is usually achieved by drawing more cards than your opponent, or by spending less cards to compete on the field. If one player has overwhelming card advantage, they will be able to make the most optimal plays, and should have an advantage for the remainder of the match. Now you shouldn’t assume that card advantage is always superior, as other deck styles can take hold of the match in different ways. Often times card advantage is sacrificed for a higher tempo of play, that forces opponents to respond with their own cards. How do Card Advantage and Discard Interact? Put simply, if timed properly, discard has the ability to give you card advantage. Let's pretend a two CP summon existed that read “Your opponent discards one card from their hand”. If you discard a card to pay for this summon, you would have a loss of two cards, while your opponent would have a loss of one. Doesn’t sound great does it? Of course this could be more beneficial if you used backup CP to pay for the summon, the result being that each player lost one card. Now if you used this at a critical juncture where you needed to attack with forwards and had to get rid of any combat tricks an opponent might be holding on to, then this card could be even more advantageous. If we look at discard in a vacuum (meaning there are no combat tricks or payments to worry about), your opponent must have a net loss of cards compared to yourself for discard to grant you card advantage. However, card advantage isn’t the only thing we are looking for when we play discard decks. Next we will look at what type of cards discard can be bundled with. Discard Options: Many Styles Available In FFTCG, the discard effect can come on every type of card: forwards, backups, summons, and monsters. Depending on what type of discard cards you use, it will change the direction of the deck you are building and therefore the cards you pick to play. Please note that the vast majority of discard abilities are on ice cards, as this is one of ice’s themes as an element. Discard on Forwards When discard comes printed on forwards, those forwards generally have less power or are costed differently compared other forwards with similar power. Let’s look at Serah 1-195S. At 3 CP and 6000 power, she is slightly weaker than a vanilla 3 CP forward (a forward with no abilities), which would generally have 7000 power. Serah’s text reads “When Serah enters the field, your opponent discards 1 card from his/her hand.”. If you dulled one backup and discarded a card to play Serah, she will “net” back 2 CP by having your opponent also discard a card. This keeps your hand size similar, even though you played a forward. This is a “fast” card, since its ability acts immediately. Nooj 1-051R is similar to Serah, but has 7000 power. His downside, however, is that when he leaves the field your opponent can draw a card. Forwards are also very valuable, since you need to attack with them to win a match. Having discard on forward is a very valuable effect, and provides tempo to keep up with a fast game. There are many forwards (Imaginary Champion 2-029C, Sephiroth 1-044R, and Squall 1-042R) that make both you and your opponent discard a card upon entering the field. However, if you don’t have any cards in hand, only your opponent will discard. This is also one of the biggest weaknesses of the discard mechanic, since the same rule applies to your opponent. Discard cards drawn when your opponent’s hand is empty will have no effect if played. One final card with a “fast” effect worth mentioning is Cid Raines 1-192S. His ability reads “When Cid Raines enters the field, choose 1 dull Forward opponent controls. Deal it 4000 damage. When it is put from the field into the Break Zone this turn, your opponent discards 1 card from his/her hand.”. This ability is often used in decks to ping off small forwards, or to finish off large forwards with damage on them. He can also be used first, and the forward can be broken later, as long as it is in the same turn as Cid Raine’s effect, your opponent will have to discard. Not all forwards make your opponent discard right away. Some force a discard when they are affected by abilities (Kuja 1-037H, Capricious Reaper 2-039C) and others when they damage your opponent (Genesis 3-033L, Locke 4-084L). Another version of Serah (4-037H) is slightly faster than the aforementioned cards since she forces a discard just by attacking (the discard happens at the declaration of an attack, before a block). The downside, is that her ability requires 2 Ice CP every time it is used. If you were to use her ability without utilizing backup CP, your opponent would have no net loss of cards, since you would both be discarding for the effect. Again, with proper timing, this detail is not as important. Learning the optimal timing and having a sustainable gameplan are vital to being a great FFTCG player. Discard on Backups Whenever you play a backup, you are at the very least investing in having a +1 CP return in resources each turn. However, if you play a backup that has no impact on the field, or your opponent’s hand, then you can fall behind in a match. This can be dangerous if your opponent is pressing the field themselves. Many of the backups with discard options require the back-ups to be dulled and put into the break zone. This means the effect cannot happen the turn you play the backup, and you are losing one of your CP resources once you detonate the ability. These types cards can be considered “slow” cards since it takes time to reap the benefit of their abilities. If you play too many slow cards, your opponent will overwhelm you and win the game before you can activate your abilities. Playing these cards benefit from a controlling type of deck, that has ways to handle the board and set-up for the late game. When we play discard backups, we also have access to Edward 3-029R that allows you to force your opponent to discard each turn, provided you can pay for his ability. Using this card each turn, ideally with backup CP, would continually put you in a position to gain card advantage. Unfortunately this requires time and CP that could be spent competing on the board. Unless you are properly set up, this card can be more harmful than helpful. There are only two backups that makes your opponent discard upon entry to the field. These are the 3 CP Edward 5-031H and the 2 CP Kazusa 3-026C. Edward also has an special ability that cancels a summon’s effect for the cost of discarding one card name “Edward” and dulling your Edward back-up. This fast card is easy to play while setting up your backups early game, and can provide support in combat later on in the match. Ideally you would run 3 copies of this Edward to use his special. If you wanted just his discard ability, it would be better to run Serah 1-195S, since a forward that can attack and block is generally more valuable than a blank back-up that generates CP. Now lets look at Kazusa. He not only causes your opponent to discard but also makes you discard a card from your hand. By dulling him and putting him in the breakzone, you can use this effect again. Ideally you want to use this ability when you have no cards in hand. Kazusa riskier to play compared to Edward, but offers extra discard for a lower price. One key note is that many of these backup’s abilities (and monsters for that matter) have the text “You can only use this ability during your turn”, meaning you cannot force discards on your opponent’s turn at a critical juncture. Discard on Summons There are only a few summons that have discard effects: Glasya Labolas 5-032H and Hades 1-052R. If we look at the “Doom Train”, Glasya Labolas, it reads “Select up to 2 of the 4 following actions. "Your opponent discards 1 card from his/her hand." "Choose 1 Forward. Dull it." "Choose 1 Forward. Freeze it." "Choose 1 dull Forward. Deal it 7000 damage." This card recently came out in Opus V and has a ton of utility. It saw a decent amount of play at the Crystal Cup in Boston due to its flexibility. At worst it can be a Shiva 1-038R without the ex-burst, but players at this competition were using all of its abilities, including using it to make their opponent’s discard at critical points of the match. Hades reads “Choose 1 Forward and 1 Backup opponent controls. Dull the Forward and return the Backup to its owner's hand. Your opponent discards 1 card from his/her hand.”. This card does a lot, but doesn’t see much play. Ideally you can return a backup you don’t want to play against to an empty hand, forcing them to discard it. When you use summons to cause a discard, you have to look at what you invested and think “was this an optimal play?”. In the case of Hades, they may be able to replay the back-up you returned fairly quickly, making 5 CP a lot to pay for a dull forward and one discard. Discard on Monsters There are four monsters with discard mechanics: Flan 4-043C, Buccaboo 5-046R, Gesper 5-034C, and Aloeidai 5-05H. Each of these monsters work differently, and some use similar abilities to what we have seen on forwards and back-ups. Flan is the most commonly seen discard monster. It breaks itself to cause a discard, but it also has an ability to search for another Flan, giving you the option to keep the discard going and refill your hand with potential CP. Flan currently sees the most play out of the four discard monsters. Aloeidai has also seen some play recently. He is able to become a forward with similar abilities to Locke and Genesis. The benefit of running Aloeidai is that you can choose to turn him into a forward only if an opportunity arises where he can definitely cause a discard. When he is a forward his category XIII status is a combo enabler with Serah 4-037H. He also plays well with Lightning 4-115L. Gesper causes you and your opponent to discard after dulling him. This effect does not put him in the break zone, and can be used once he is active again. This would be most effective in a deck where you constantly keep your hand empty. However, if you do take that line of play, you are liable to have the board turned on you and lose your assets. For example, if you play out your hand and overextend, you are likely to have a Shantotto played against you. It also leaves you unable to respond to anything your opponent throws at you. Buccaboo is a very interesting card. For two CP he sits on the field and waits. If your opponent plays a character (forward, backup, or monster), then Buccaboo makes them discard two cards from their hand and goes to the break zone. This can effectively empty an opponent’s hand and when timed properly is devastating. In the early game, if your opponent has few backups, this can cause a CP shortage, since they are only drawing two cards a turn. In the later game, it can result in key cards being discarded that your opponent was specifically holding on to. Buccaboo does have a few weaknesses. First, if your opponent has no cards in hand when a character enters the field, Buccaboo still triggers and goes to the break zone, but your opponent will get off free, with nothing to discard. Second, if you don’t play Buccaboo using backup CP, he is effectively two cards lost from your hand as well, although you do control the timing. He also takes up a slot in your deck, which could have been a more optimal card. I have seen this card cause some serious damage, if it is played properly. Wind Discard
The wind element has two main discard options: Thief 5-055C and Zidane 3-056H. Both allow you to see your opponent’s hand and pick which card is discarded. Each of these cards can be used to supplement an ice discard deck, and offer the added benefit of seeing your opponent’s hand. Another useful card from wind is Miounne 5-067R. She allows you to return a friendly character to your hand and draws you one card. This effect can be employed to reuse fast discard cards that have already been played. This is an expensive combo, but since Miounne draws you one card, you will have extra resources to pay the CP to replay another Zidane or Serah. Mill Decks- Not the Same as Discard. I wanted to add a quick note on mill decks. In FFTCG, wind has many cards that have abilities causing your opponent to place cards directly from their deck into the break zone. The effect seems similar to discard, but has one major weakness. It does not affect the field directly or indirectly. You may cause your opponent to mill some valuable parts of their deck, and eventually lose the match due to a deck out, but the effect is very slow and their field and hand will continue to grow steadily. Without serious stalling mechanics, it is impossible to maintain the mill strategy. Discard Summary That concludes our guide on the discard mechanic for FFTCG. Hopefully now you have a good understanding of how to use discard properly! I will link below some example decklists that use the discard mechanic. Keep in mind you need a very specific idea of what your goal is and how you will accomplish it, if you plan to play discard. Will you use a discard package, to add to an existing deck? Or will you build a control deck aiming to bleed your opponent dry. If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected]. Until next time! Sample Decklists
About the Author: Alex Kelsch is one of many contributors to Cloud City. He mainly plays the Ice, Earth, and Lightning elements, and has a soft spot for the discard mechanic. His favourite Final Fantasy is probably 4, but he doesn’t like having to choose. Alex works as a high school teacher, specifically teaches PE and Science. He also loves playing Tennis and Soccer, and coaches several youth teams.
3 Comments
SeraphDNA
5/7/2018 08:50:14 am
I just wanted to add that Card Advantage is not only when you have more cards than your opponent on hand, it also counts the cards that you have on the field. If my opponent has 5 cards at hand while I only have 1, but I have 5 more forwards on the field, I actually have card advantage (and tempo advantage) for that matter).
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Alex
5/8/2018 05:53:56 pm
Thanks a lot for taking the time to read and reply! You are completely right, I did short change the definition with this article. As you can see it’s already quite a read, but those are things I would like to talk about in future pieces. I should clarify though when I write something decisive like that.
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SeraphDNA
5/9/2018 07:44:34 am
Do keep up the good work. If you want to shorten it a little more, maybe let the images explain the effects of the cards and concentrate on the impact of the card and strategy portion. Leave a Reply. |
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